Father Paul Kramer speaks on Russia and Fatima and the current war in Ukraine
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@Carol H "And thus we come to 13 May 1981, when I was wounded by gunshots fired in St. Peter's Square. At first, I did not pay attention to the fact that the assassination attempt had occurred on the exact anniversary of the day Mary appeared to the three children at Fátima in Portugal and spoke to them the words that now, at the end of this century, seem to be close to their fulfillment." - …More
@Carol H "And thus we come to 13 May 1981, when I was wounded by gunshots fired in St. Peter's Square. At first, I did not pay attention to the fact that the assassination attempt had occurred on the exact anniversary of the day Mary appeared to the three children at Fátima in Portugal and spoke to them the words that now, at the end of this century, seem to be close to their fulfillment." - Pope John Paul II Crossing the Threshold of Hope 1994, pdf p. 114
When questioned about the 13 July 1917 apparition during the canonical investigation in 1924, Lucia testified: “Then the Lady told us some brief words commanding us not to tell them to anyone, except Francisco alone.” What are those words?
Where are those words of Our Lady of Fatima that She confided as a Secret to the three little shepherd children in the Cova de Iria?
Where are the "words" …More
When questioned about the 13 July 1917 apparition during the canonical investigation in 1924, Lucia testified: “Then the Lady told us some brief words commanding us not to tell them to anyone, except Francisco alone.” What are those words?
Where are those words of Our Lady of Fatima that She confided as a Secret to the three little shepherd children in the Cova de Iria?
Where are the "words" spoken by Our Lady to little Lucia of Fatima mentioned by the future Pope Pius XII, then Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, Secretary of State to Pope Pius XI in 1933? [See Msgr. Georges Roche & Philippe Saint Germain, Pie XII devant l’Histoire, 1972, p. 52-53]
Where are the "words" of Our Lady spoken as a Secret that Sr. Lucia told Fr. Hubert Jongen that she wrote down "word for word" during her interview in 1946?
Where is the text of "words" containing the Secret that Sr. Lucia mentioned to Canon Casimir Barthas in 1946?
The "words" mentioned in the Vatican Announcement on the ANI Portugese Radio Broadcast on 8 Febuary 1960.
Where are those words of Our Lady of Fatima that She confided as a Secret to the three little shepherd children in the Cova de Iria?
Where are the "words" spoken by Our Lady to little Lucia of Fatima mentioned by the future Pope Pius XII, then Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, Secretary of State to Pope Pius XI in 1933? [See Msgr. Georges Roche & Philippe Saint Germain, Pie XII devant l’Histoire, 1972, p. 52-53]
Where are the "words" of Our Lady spoken as a Secret that Sr. Lucia told Fr. Hubert Jongen that she wrote down "word for word" during her interview in 1946?
Where is the text of "words" containing the Secret that Sr. Lucia mentioned to Canon Casimir Barthas in 1946?
The "words" mentioned in the Vatican Announcement on the ANI Portugese Radio Broadcast on 8 Febuary 1960.
You have a fixation on the word "words". Whatever those words are, Our Blessed Mother obviously wanted it kept between them. Not our business. As for the rest, we have covered it. Our Lady did not want the Third Secret to be read until 1960. Why on earth then do you -repeatedly - keep bringing up claims from 1946?
@Carol H "He deceives himself who thinks that the prophetic mission of Fatima is concluded." [ …] "May the seven years which separate us from the centenary of the apparitions hasten the fulfillment of the prophecy of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, to the glory of the Most Holy Trinity." - Pope Benedict XVI Homily at Fatima on 13 May 2010 13 de maio de 2010: Viagem Apostólica a Portugal …More
@Carol H "He deceives himself who thinks that the prophetic mission of Fatima is concluded." [ …] "May the seven years which separate us from the centenary of the apparitions hasten the fulfillment of the prophecy of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, to the glory of the Most Holy Trinity." - Pope Benedict XVI Homily at Fatima on 13 May 2010 13 de maio de 2010: Viagem Apostólica a Portugal no 10º aniversário da beatificação de Jacinta e Francisco, pastorinhos de Fátima - Santa Missa na Esplanada do Santuário de Nossa Senhora de Fátima | Bento XVI
When questioned about the 13 July 1917 apparition during the canonical investigation in 1924, Lucia testified: “Then the Lady told us some brief words commanding us not to tell them to anyone, except Francisco alone.” What are those words?
Where are those words of Our Lady of Fatima that She confided as a Secret to the three little shepherd children in the Cova de Iria?
Where are the "words" …More
When questioned about the 13 July 1917 apparition during the canonical investigation in 1924, Lucia testified: “Then the Lady told us some brief words commanding us not to tell them to anyone, except Francisco alone.” What are those words?
Where are those words of Our Lady of Fatima that She confided as a Secret to the three little shepherd children in the Cova de Iria?
Where are the "words" spoken by Our Lady to little Lucia of Fatima mentioned by the future Pope Pius XII, then Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, Secretary of State to Pope Pius XI in 1933? [See Msgr. Georges Roche & Philippe Saint Germain, Pie XII devant l’Histoire, 1972, p. 52-53]
Where are the "words" of Our Lady spoken as a Secret that Sr. Lucia told Fr. Hubert Jongen that she wrote down "word for word" during her interview in 1946?
Where is the text of "words" containing the Secret that Sr. Lucia mentioned to Canon Casimir Barthas in 1946?
The "words" mentioned in the Vatican Announcement on the ANI Portugese Radio Broadcast on 8 Febuary 1960.
Where are those words of Our Lady of Fatima that She confided as a Secret to the three little shepherd children in the Cova de Iria?
Where are the "words" spoken by Our Lady to little Lucia of Fatima mentioned by the future Pope Pius XII, then Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, Secretary of State to Pope Pius XI in 1933? [See Msgr. Georges Roche & Philippe Saint Germain, Pie XII devant l’Histoire, 1972, p. 52-53]
Where are the "words" of Our Lady spoken as a Secret that Sr. Lucia told Fr. Hubert Jongen that she wrote down "word for word" during her interview in 1946?
Where is the text of "words" containing the Secret that Sr. Lucia mentioned to Canon Casimir Barthas in 1946?
The "words" mentioned in the Vatican Announcement on the ANI Portugese Radio Broadcast on 8 Febuary 1960.
@Carol H Your comments touch upon both the deformation and obfuscation of the true Message of Fatima. The Traditional Catholic Italian Journalist, Antonio Socci, explains why...
On 13 of May 2000 Cardinal Sodano, Vatican Secretary of State, announces that the famous Third Secret of Fatima will soon be published and at the same time anticipates the theological interpretation of that extremely delicate …More
@Carol H Your comments touch upon both the deformation and obfuscation of the true Message of Fatima. The Traditional Catholic Italian Journalist, Antonio Socci, explains why...
On 13 of May 2000 Cardinal Sodano, Vatican Secretary of State, announces that the famous Third Secret of Fatima will soon be published and at the same time anticipates the theological interpretation of that extremely delicate text by linking the Vision to the assassination attempt.
One Vaticanist comments, "What happened on 13 of May 2000 represents something unique in the history of the Church. A correct interpretation was offered even before the text to be interpreted was provided."
Many Catholics do not realize that Pope Paul VI placed the Secretary of State over the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. So, after the announcement a pre-emptive explanation of this Vision by his superior (Cardinal Sodano), Cardinal Ratzinger was then asked to make a theological commentary on the text.
Socci explains, "On the 26 of June 2000, Cardinal Ratzinger was NOT ABLE to make a FREE theological comment on the text but insistently declared that the interpretation was by the Secretary of State [Cardinal Sodano] and that he is only giving points of reflection within the confines of a pre-determined interpretative framework stating explicitly the limits of his commentary."
Socci continues “noting that NOT ONLY did Cardinal Ratzinger downplay the significance of this interpretation he ALSO stressed that concerning the Fatima Visions there are NO official definitions NOR obligatory interpretations” and that there are other attempts to interpretation which can be well founded." Cardinal Ratizinger also stressed, in response to an inquiry from a bishop, that "he did not at all wish to attribute exclusively to the past the contents of the Secret in a simplistic manner."
In other words, one possible explanation of the Vision was given BUT we are perfectly free to seek other possibilities.
Angelo Cardinal Sodano, former Vatican Secretary of State, who “managed” the revelation of the vision of the “Bishop dressed in white” in 2000 and whose patently untenable “interpretation” of the vision as a depiction of the 1981 attempt on the life of John Paul II was widely rejected by the faithful. Sodano’s “interpretation” was cited no fewer than four times in the Vatican commentary on the Vision, The Message of Fatima, published together with the Vision on June 26, 2000. But what business is it of the Vatican Secretary of State to “interpret” the Message conveyed to the Church and the world by the Virgin Mother of God back in 1917? Here we see how Vatican “diplomacy” has made a captive of the Message of Fatima for the sake of fallible human initiatives, including “dialogue,” “ecumenism” and “Ostpolitik.” Tarcisio Cardinal Bertone , successor to Cardinal Sodano as Secretary of State, and formerly Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith as Archbishop Bertone (in which capacity he co-authored The Message of Fatima). Bertone’s actions, disclosures and revelations between 2000 and 2008 concerning the cover-up of an unpublished text of the words of the Blessed Virgin, a text no doubt explaining the published Vision, are central to the whole “detective story.” The claim that Sister Lucia approved the Cardinal Sodano´s interpretation of the Vision is false.
On 13 of May 2000 Cardinal Sodano, Vatican Secretary of State, announces that the famous Third Secret of Fatima will soon be published and at the same time anticipates the theological interpretation of that extremely delicate text by linking the Vision to the assassination attempt.
One Vaticanist comments, "What happened on 13 of May 2000 represents something unique in the history of the Church. A correct interpretation was offered even before the text to be interpreted was provided."
Many Catholics do not realize that Pope Paul VI placed the Secretary of State over the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. So, after the announcement a pre-emptive explanation of this Vision by his superior (Cardinal Sodano), Cardinal Ratzinger was then asked to make a theological commentary on the text.
Socci explains, "On the 26 of June 2000, Cardinal Ratzinger was NOT ABLE to make a FREE theological comment on the text but insistently declared that the interpretation was by the Secretary of State [Cardinal Sodano] and that he is only giving points of reflection within the confines of a pre-determined interpretative framework stating explicitly the limits of his commentary."
Socci continues “noting that NOT ONLY did Cardinal Ratzinger downplay the significance of this interpretation he ALSO stressed that concerning the Fatima Visions there are NO official definitions NOR obligatory interpretations” and that there are other attempts to interpretation which can be well founded." Cardinal Ratizinger also stressed, in response to an inquiry from a bishop, that "he did not at all wish to attribute exclusively to the past the contents of the Secret in a simplistic manner."
In other words, one possible explanation of the Vision was given BUT we are perfectly free to seek other possibilities.
Angelo Cardinal Sodano, former Vatican Secretary of State, who “managed” the revelation of the vision of the “Bishop dressed in white” in 2000 and whose patently untenable “interpretation” of the vision as a depiction of the 1981 attempt on the life of John Paul II was widely rejected by the faithful. Sodano’s “interpretation” was cited no fewer than four times in the Vatican commentary on the Vision, The Message of Fatima, published together with the Vision on June 26, 2000. But what business is it of the Vatican Secretary of State to “interpret” the Message conveyed to the Church and the world by the Virgin Mother of God back in 1917? Here we see how Vatican “diplomacy” has made a captive of the Message of Fatima for the sake of fallible human initiatives, including “dialogue,” “ecumenism” and “Ostpolitik.” Tarcisio Cardinal Bertone , successor to Cardinal Sodano as Secretary of State, and formerly Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith as Archbishop Bertone (in which capacity he co-authored The Message of Fatima). Bertone’s actions, disclosures and revelations between 2000 and 2008 concerning the cover-up of an unpublished text of the words of the Blessed Virgin, a text no doubt explaining the published Vision, are central to the whole “detective story.” The claim that Sister Lucia approved the Cardinal Sodano´s interpretation of the Vision is false.
Roughly 10 minutes into this talk Fr. Kramer makes the statement that "the 3rd Secret has not been revealed" The following is a snippet from the article "9 things to know and share about the "Third Secret" of Fatima." by Jimmy Akin: National Catholic Register blog (May 12, 2013):
8) Has the Vatican revealed the whole of the secret?:
Despite the claims of some to the contrary, yes, it has. In his …More
Roughly 10 minutes into this talk Fr. Kramer makes the statement that "the 3rd Secret has not been revealed" The following is a snippet from the article "9 things to know and share about the "Third Secret" of Fatima." by Jimmy Akin: National Catholic Register blog (May 12, 2013):
8) Has the Vatican revealed the whole of the secret?:
Despite the claims of some to the contrary, yes, it has. In his theological commentary, the future Pope Benedict XVI says so twice:
"A careful reading of the text of the so-called third "secret" of Fatima, published here in its entirety long after the fact and by decision of the Holy Father, will probably prove disappointing or surprising after all the speculation it has stirred. No great mystery is revealed; nor is the future unveiled. We see the Church of the martyrs of the century which has just passed represented in a scene described in a language which is symbolic and not easy to decipher. . . .
Thus we come finally to the third part of the "secret" of Fatima which for the first time is being published in its entirety [Ratzinger, MF, op. cit.].
Unless you think that the future pope — who was himself the keeper of the secret at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith — was lying then the whole secret has been revealed."
8) Has the Vatican revealed the whole of the secret?:
Despite the claims of some to the contrary, yes, it has. In his theological commentary, the future Pope Benedict XVI says so twice:
"A careful reading of the text of the so-called third "secret" of Fatima, published here in its entirety long after the fact and by decision of the Holy Father, will probably prove disappointing or surprising after all the speculation it has stirred. No great mystery is revealed; nor is the future unveiled. We see the Church of the martyrs of the century which has just passed represented in a scene described in a language which is symbolic and not easy to decipher. . . .
Thus we come finally to the third part of the "secret" of Fatima which for the first time is being published in its entirety [Ratzinger, MF, op. cit.].
Unless you think that the future pope — who was himself the keeper of the secret at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith — was lying then the whole secret has been revealed."
Roughly 10 minutes into this talk Fr. Cramer makes the statement that "the 3rd Secret has not been revealed". He does not say "in my opinion" or ""there is evidence to suggest that...". No. He makes a sweeping statement as if it were fact. This is a red flag. Why? Because he immediately sets himself (and worse, his listeners) against Rome in a matter that (1) he cannot possibly know for sure, (2) …More
Roughly 10 minutes into this talk Fr. Cramer makes the statement that "the 3rd Secret has not been revealed". He does not say "in my opinion" or ""there is evidence to suggest that...". No. He makes a sweeping statement as if it were fact. This is a red flag. Why? Because he immediately sets himself (and worse, his listeners) against Rome in a matter that (1) he cannot possibly know for sure, (2) that is not a matter of doctrine/ the deposit of faith. I do not recall His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre ever doing this. I do not recall any sound churchmen doing this. To do so, is make your own opinion higher than the authority of the Church and in a matter that concerns ONLY the authority of the Church. This is a clear-cut case of being an agitator.
Dear Carol H, you don't know what you are talking about. It is a fact. You couldn't have ever really studied the subject to make such a ridiculous statement. You are spreading misinformation to the GTV audience and for that you are solely responsible. This is a clear-cut case of being an ignorant agent of misinformation.
Sigh...if you are going to respond at least address the issues raised. All you have done is deflect and accuse me of the very things Fr. Kramer is doing. For when you speak of misinformation, what exactly are you talking about? Misinformation against the Church? (If so, spell it out). Or misinformation against someone who is undermining the Church? (Again, spell it out). In short, are you defending …More
Sigh...if you are going to respond at least address the issues raised. All you have done is deflect and accuse me of the very things Fr. Kramer is doing. For when you speak of misinformation, what exactly are you talking about? Misinformation against the Church? (If so, spell it out). Or misinformation against someone who is undermining the Church? (Again, spell it out). In short, are you defending the authority of the Church ... or am I?
When questioned about the 13 July 1917 apparition during the canonical investigation in 1924, Lucia testified: “Then the Lady told us some brief words commanding us not to tell them to anyone, except Francisco alone.” What are those words?
Where are those words of Our Lady of Fatima that She confided as a Secret to the three little shepherd children in the Cova de Iria?
Where are the "words" …More
When questioned about the 13 July 1917 apparition during the canonical investigation in 1924, Lucia testified: “Then the Lady told us some brief words commanding us not to tell them to anyone, except Francisco alone.” What are those words?
Where are those words of Our Lady of Fatima that She confided as a Secret to the three little shepherd children in the Cova de Iria?
Where are the "words" spoken by Our Lady to little Lucia of Fatima mentioned by the future Pope Pius XII, then Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, Secretary of State to Pope Pius XI in 1933? [See Msgr. Georges Roche & Philippe Saint Germain, Pie XII devant l’Histoire, 1972, p. 52-53]
Where are the "words" of Our Lady spoken as a Secret that Sr. Lucia told Fr. Hubert Jongen that she wrote down "word for word" during her interview in 1946?
Where is the text of "words" containing the Secret that Sr. Lucia mentioned to Canon Casimir Barthas in 1946?
The "words" mentioned in the Vatican Announcement on the ANI Portugese Radio Broadcast on 8 Febuary 1960.
Where are the "words" that Pope John Paul II referred to in 1994 in his work entitled, Crossing the Threshold of Hope 1994, pdf. p. 114
Where are those words of Our Lady of Fatima that She confided as a Secret to the three little shepherd children in the Cova de Iria?
Where are the "words" spoken by Our Lady to little Lucia of Fatima mentioned by the future Pope Pius XII, then Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, Secretary of State to Pope Pius XI in 1933? [See Msgr. Georges Roche & Philippe Saint Germain, Pie XII devant l’Histoire, 1972, p. 52-53]
Where are the "words" of Our Lady spoken as a Secret that Sr. Lucia told Fr. Hubert Jongen that she wrote down "word for word" during her interview in 1946?
Where is the text of "words" containing the Secret that Sr. Lucia mentioned to Canon Casimir Barthas in 1946?
The "words" mentioned in the Vatican Announcement on the ANI Portugese Radio Broadcast on 8 Febuary 1960.
Where are the "words" that Pope John Paul II referred to in 1994 in his work entitled, Crossing the Threshold of Hope 1994, pdf. p. 114
Mmmm, the third secret was sealed and carefully guarded for the eyes/authority of the Pope only (not even the Bishop of Leira peeped) - not to be opened before 1960. Yet here you are supporting the story that Sr. Lucia wrote a different secret down - word for word/ text of the words - to a Fr. Hubert Jordan and Canon Barthas in 1946. Curious. As for the "words" of Cardinal Pacelli and Pope John …More
Mmmm, the third secret was sealed and carefully guarded for the eyes/authority of the Pope only (not even the Bishop of Leira peeped) - not to be opened before 1960. Yet here you are supporting the story that Sr. Lucia wrote a different secret down - word for word/ text of the words - to a Fr. Hubert Jordan and Canon Barthas in 1946. Curious. As for the "words" of Cardinal Pacelli and Pope John Paul II in passing reference to the Secret - how do they contradict the contents of the Secret published by the Vatican?
On 5 July 2006, during a recorded interview the personal secretary to Pope John XXIII, Archbishop Loris F. Capovilla, was asked by Solideo Paolini if "there are two texts of the Third Secret?" and he declared, "Exactly so!" (Per l’appunto!) - Socci, Fourth Secret, p. 132, 142
4 more comments from Live Mike
There were two texts. One text contained the description of the vision - the easy part - the part they published on 26 June 2000. Another text which contained the actual words of Our Lady, that Sr. Lucia wrote down word for word - the part they thought was inauthentic and have never published to this date 21 May 2024. The express order of Our Lady written on the envelopes makes NO REFERENCE TO THE …More
There were two texts. One text contained the description of the vision - the easy part - the part they published on 26 June 2000. Another text which contained the actual words of Our Lady, that Sr. Lucia wrote down word for word - the part they thought was inauthentic and have never published to this date 21 May 2024. The express order of Our Lady written on the envelopes makes NO REFERENCE TO THE POPE. “By express order of Our Lady, this envelope can only be opened in 1960 by His Excellency, the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon or His Excellency, the Bishop of Leiria.”
On 31 May 2007 during an Italian television program, "Porta a Porta", for the first time in history Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone revealed that Sr. Lucia had written on 2 wax-sealed envelopes the express order of Our Lady to be opened in "1960".
This completely contradicted the Vatican website which states: “It was not Our Lady. I [Sr. Lúcia] fixed the date because I had the intuition that before 1960…More
On 31 May 2007 during an Italian television program, "Porta a Porta", for the first time in history Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone revealed that Sr. Lucia had written on 2 wax-sealed envelopes the express order of Our Lady to be opened in "1960".
This completely contradicted the Vatican website which states: “It was not Our Lady. I [Sr. Lúcia] fixed the date because I had the intuition that before 1960 it would not be understood, but that only later would it be understood.” vatican.va/…/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
This completely contradicted the Vatican website which states: “It was not Our Lady. I [Sr. Lúcia] fixed the date because I had the intuition that before 1960 it would not be understood, but that only later would it be understood.” vatican.va/…/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
Carol H wrote, "how do they contradict the contents of the Secret published by the Vatican?" BECAUSE THE TEXT PUBLISHED BY THE VATICAN CONTAINS NOT A SINGLE WORD OF OUR LADY... IT IS ONLY THE DESCRIPTION OF THE VISION!!! There are only three words in the entire official Vatican publication. "Penance, Penance, Penance," spoken by an angel NOT by Our Lady. So where are the words of Our Lady spoken …More
Carol H wrote, "how do they contradict the contents of the Secret published by the Vatican?" BECAUSE THE TEXT PUBLISHED BY THE VATICAN CONTAINS NOT A SINGLE WORD OF OUR LADY... IT IS ONLY THE DESCRIPTION OF THE VISION!!! There are only three words in the entire official Vatican publication. "Penance, Penance, Penance," spoken by an angel NOT by Our Lady. So where are the words of Our Lady spoken as a Secret in explanation of that enigmatic mysterious vision?!
“Pope John XXIII said it [The Secret] wasn't true; that it was unreliable and the children didn't know what they were talking about, and Lucia didn't because she was illiterate, under 10. So she couldn't know what she was talking about. And so he suppressed the secret.”
"Pope John XXIII derided contemptuously the people he called 'prophets of doom' - and there was no doubt in any of our minds, he …More
“Pope John XXIII said it [The Secret] wasn't true; that it was unreliable and the children didn't know what they were talking about, and Lucia didn't because she was illiterate, under 10. So she couldn't know what she was talking about. And so he suppressed the secret.”
"Pope John XXIII derided contemptuously the people he called 'prophets of doom' - and there was no doubt in any of our minds, he was talking about the three prophets of Fatima. He was against that.”
“The Secret of Fatima contains a sad prophecy about the Church and, for this reason Pope John [XXIII] did not divulge it. … In my opinion, what is written is that in 1960, the Pope would have convoked a Council from which, contrary to his intentions, there would arise many difficulties in the Church.” - Cardinal Silvio Oddi, 30 Giorni, 11 November 1990, p. 69
“The prophecy of Fatima is not a pleasant document to read – not pleasant news. It implies – it doesn't make any sense unless we accept that there will be, or that there is in progress – a wholesale apostasy amongst clerics and laity in the Catholic Church, that the institutional organization of the Roman Catholic Church – unless that is totally disrupted and rendered null & void, the Third Secret makes no sense, and number two, that it means intense suffering for believers.”
"The Secret was meant for the people, not for the pope, not for the bishops, not for the Holy Office. It was meant to be published, in 1960, by explicit order, by the mandate of Heaven. John XXIII, God bless him and rest him, decided not to. He had his own reasons. We think, with all due respect and veneration etc., that he made a very bad mistake."
"Pope John XXIII derided contemptuously the people he called 'prophets of doom' - and there was no doubt in any of our minds, he was talking about the three prophets of Fatima. He was against that.”
“The Secret of Fatima contains a sad prophecy about the Church and, for this reason Pope John [XXIII] did not divulge it. … In my opinion, what is written is that in 1960, the Pope would have convoked a Council from which, contrary to his intentions, there would arise many difficulties in the Church.” - Cardinal Silvio Oddi, 30 Giorni, 11 November 1990, p. 69
“The prophecy of Fatima is not a pleasant document to read – not pleasant news. It implies – it doesn't make any sense unless we accept that there will be, or that there is in progress – a wholesale apostasy amongst clerics and laity in the Catholic Church, that the institutional organization of the Roman Catholic Church – unless that is totally disrupted and rendered null & void, the Third Secret makes no sense, and number two, that it means intense suffering for believers.”
"The Secret was meant for the people, not for the pope, not for the bishops, not for the Holy Office. It was meant to be published, in 1960, by explicit order, by the mandate of Heaven. John XXIII, God bless him and rest him, decided not to. He had his own reasons. We think, with all due respect and veneration etc., that he made a very bad mistake."
As you have responded with six messages in a row, I will reply to each message 1-6: (1) My argument stands with one qualification: I did indeed word it as if Sr. Lucia intended it only to be read by the Pope. However, it was ultimately intended for the Pope (it concerned him directly) and obviously not before 1960. Therefore, to say that differing 1946 versions of the secret are proof that the …More
As you have responded with six messages in a row, I will reply to each message 1-6: (1) My argument stands with one qualification: I did indeed word it as if Sr. Lucia intended it only to be read by the Pope. However, it was ultimately intended for the Pope (it concerned him directly) and obviously not before 1960. Therefore, to say that differing 1946 versions of the secret are proof that the Vatican version is a fraud, holds no weight. (2) Did this personal secretary of Pope John XXIII personally witness the Third Secret or is he speculating? Who is this Socci? Is he a reliable source? I understand that he a main-stream Italian journalist? You do not provide the full context. (3) The Bishop of Leiria held the Third Secret up to the light and saw that it was reasonably brief - one long paragraph if my memory serves me correctly. Where did this novel "two text" theory suddenly spring from? (4) I did not know how this applies to the discussion at hand (5) You wrote: "So where are the words of Our Lady spoken as a Secret in explanation of that enigmatic mysterious vision?!" Who said there was an explanation? We are back to the "two-text" argument. Again, where did this new theory originate from? Socci?? In mid-October, 1943, Bishop Silva had sent Sr. Lucia a letter containing a direct order to record the Third secret. Lúcia continued to struggle, even after this direct order. According to Lúcia, she overcame it after the Virgin Mary appeared to her in early January 1944 and said, "Write that which they command you, but not that which is given to you to understand of its meaning." - Sr. Lucia's Memoirs. (6) All your points are in inverted commas so I take it you are quoting someone else as well as the personal opinion of Cardinal Oddi? Whoever they are, they would make a great fiction novelist. Our Lady never said that the Third Secret had to be published. She never said it was intended for the whole world to know. And I have never read before that Pope John XXIII had said the secret wasn't true and the children didn't know what they were talking about - only that he said, to paraphrase, "it was not for our time".
If Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was speaking the truth to his longtime friend and spiritual son of Padre Pio, Father Ingo Döllinger, then the 26 June 2000 publication was only a partial release of the Third Secret. Cardinal Ratzinger declared, “Really there is something more there. There is more than what we published.” “What we have published is not the whole secret. We were instructed to do so.” …More
If Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was speaking the truth to his longtime friend and spiritual son of Padre Pio, Father Ingo Döllinger, then the 26 June 2000 publication was only a partial release of the Third Secret. Cardinal Ratzinger declared, “Really there is something more there. There is more than what we published.” “What we have published is not the whole secret. We were instructed to do so.” – Gottfried Kiniger’s recorded conversation with Fr. Döllinger; OnePeterFive, Maike Hickson, 15 May 2016; 12 July 2016; 10 March 2017; LifeSiteNews, Maike Hickson, 25 February 2022
In a 21 May 2016 Press Communique from the Vatican, Pope Benedict XVI verified that he had “never ... spoken with Professor Dollinger about Fatima” and, secondly, that “the publication of the Third Secret is complete.” After the Vatican’s denial of his story, Dr. Dollinger said the following, passed on to Dr. Maike Hickson (writer for 1P5) in an e-mail from his secretary: “If Rome has denied it, t…More
In a 21 May 2016 Press Communique from the Vatican, Pope Benedict XVI verified that he had “never ... spoken with Professor Dollinger about Fatima” and, secondly, that “the publication of the Third Secret is complete.” After the Vatican’s denial of his story, Dr. Dollinger said the following, passed on to Dr. Maike Hickson (writer for 1P5) in an e-mail from his secretary: “If Rome has denied it, then we have to be silent and not to defend ourselves.” Professor Dollinger passed away at a great old age on June 2017. It is very possible that he misunderstood Cardinal Ratzinger or that his mind had become a little forgetful with age. If the Pope said the conversation did not take place, it did not take place. Moreover, it is highly unlikely that Cardinal Ratzinger, a reserved and careful man by nature, would go round whispering Vatican secrets to random priests. I think this is a classic case of what happens when people stop submitting to the Holy Father; they begin listening to anyone and anything who are in opposition to the Pope.
Father Döllinger was told about the words of Our Lady which warned of a bad council and not to change the liturgy / Mass in the 1990's, some 20 years before his death. Cardinal Ratzinger spoke those words privately and in confidence with a clear clarion voice to his dear trusted friend of more than a generation. There was no misunderstanding on the part of Father Döllinger.
Yes, most of the GTV …More
Father Döllinger was told about the words of Our Lady which warned of a bad council and not to change the liturgy / Mass in the 1990's, some 20 years before his death. Cardinal Ratzinger spoke those words privately and in confidence with a clear clarion voice to his dear trusted friend of more than a generation. There was no misunderstanding on the part of Father Döllinger.
Yes, most of the GTV audience knows how trustworthy and reliable the Vatican Press can be. "The response was ATTRIBUTED to Pope Benedict." Do you have any real evidence that Pope Benedict denied telling his dear friend the truth? Father Ingo Döllinger never changed his story and he essentially gave a dying declaration that Cardinal Ratzinger told him that, “What we have published is not the whole secret. We were instructed to do so.”
I think this is a classic case of what happens when people stop using the brain that God gave them to critically think about legitimate information out of blind support for the formal public heretic who gives the impression that he is the pope.
Yes, most of the GTV audience knows how trustworthy and reliable the Vatican Press can be. "The response was ATTRIBUTED to Pope Benedict." Do you have any real evidence that Pope Benedict denied telling his dear friend the truth? Father Ingo Döllinger never changed his story and he essentially gave a dying declaration that Cardinal Ratzinger told him that, “What we have published is not the whole secret. We were instructed to do so.”
I think this is a classic case of what happens when people stop using the brain that God gave them to critically think about legitimate information out of blind support for the formal public heretic who gives the impression that he is the pope.
Live Mike: My whole point is that when it comes to such matters that do not undermine my Catholic faith, I am obliged to defer to Rome and the Holy Father and not hearsay. Official communications from the Vatican - as authorized by the Holy Father - far outrank Fr. Dollinger no matter how friendly he was with Cardinal Ratzinger. You seriously need to self-reflect. You are asking us faithful to …More
Live Mike: My whole point is that when it comes to such matters that do not undermine my Catholic faith, I am obliged to defer to Rome and the Holy Father and not hearsay. Official communications from the Vatican - as authorized by the Holy Father - far outrank Fr. Dollinger no matter how friendly he was with Cardinal Ratzinger. You seriously need to self-reflect. You are asking us faithful to listen to a stream of personal opinions - which includes mainstream journalists - and NOT the official voice of the Church.
P.S. I read the article from LifeSite news as posted above. Historically it was very interesting - I'm going to go back and finish it - but the testimony concerning Dr. Dollinger and the white smoke does raise an eye-brow. With all due respect to the man, one gets the impression that he is the type who perhaps reads into things more than they are? Which would explain a lot in this discussion.
January 3, 1944 - Our Lady speaks to Sister Lúcia in the convent chapel and directs her how to write it down.
At around 4:00 in the afternoon in the chapel of the convent, before the Tabernacle, Lúcia asked Jesus to make known His will: “I then felt a friendly hand, maternal and affectionate, touch my shoulder.” And the Mother of God said to her: “Be at peace, and write what I have commanded …More
January 3, 1944 - Our Lady speaks to Sister Lúcia in the convent chapel and directs her how to write it down.
At around 4:00 in the afternoon in the chapel of the convent, before the Tabernacle, Lúcia asked Jesus to make known His will: “I then felt a friendly hand, maternal and affectionate, touch my shoulder.” And the Mother of God said to her: “Be at peace, and write what I have commanded you, but not, however, that which has been given to you to understand its meaning,” that is, the words of Our Lady explaining the meaning of the Vision.
On August 17, 2014, Italian journalist Antonio Socci, author of the book “The Fourth Secret of Fatima”, 2006, reported in an explosive column “Il Libero” that the Convent in Coimbra (where Sister Lucia lived and died in 2005) released a new biography of Lúcia called “A Path under the Gaze of Mary”, 2013” (“A caminho sob or olhar de Maria”, 2013). The biography was written by Lúcia’s fellow Sisters and also includes some of Lúcia’s unpublished writings. In one of these writings, Lúcia explains both how Our Lady assisted her to write down the Third Secret due to her anguish over the contents, and the frightening nature of the “hidden” text (still not released by the Vatican). We also learn from this previously unpublished account that while Sister Lúcia wrote the text of the vision on January 3, 1944, she did not have permission to write the explanation of the Vision until (or shortly before) January 9, 1944, again, proving the existence of two texts.
NOVITA’ APOCALITTICHE DA FATIMA (L’ULTIMO MISTERO: IL SILENZIO DELLE SUORE, MA CHI TACE…) - Lo Straniero
At around 4:00 in the afternoon in the chapel of the convent, before the Tabernacle, Lúcia asked Jesus to make known His will: “I then felt a friendly hand, maternal and affectionate, touch my shoulder.” And the Mother of God said to her: “Be at peace, and write what I have commanded you, but not, however, that which has been given to you to understand its meaning,” that is, the words of Our Lady explaining the meaning of the Vision.
On August 17, 2014, Italian journalist Antonio Socci, author of the book “The Fourth Secret of Fatima”, 2006, reported in an explosive column “Il Libero” that the Convent in Coimbra (where Sister Lucia lived and died in 2005) released a new biography of Lúcia called “A Path under the Gaze of Mary”, 2013” (“A caminho sob or olhar de Maria”, 2013). The biography was written by Lúcia’s fellow Sisters and also includes some of Lúcia’s unpublished writings. In one of these writings, Lúcia explains both how Our Lady assisted her to write down the Third Secret due to her anguish over the contents, and the frightening nature of the “hidden” text (still not released by the Vatican). We also learn from this previously unpublished account that while Sister Lúcia wrote the text of the vision on January 3, 1944, she did not have permission to write the explanation of the Vision until (or shortly before) January 9, 1944, again, proving the existence of two texts.
NOVITA’ APOCALITTICHE DA FATIMA (L’ULTIMO MISTERO: IL SILENZIO DELLE SUORE, MA CHI TACE…) - Lo Straniero
Maria delos Angeles
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Thank you.
This is the first time I have listened to Father Kramer and I'm afraid I find him painful to listen to. There is no logical thought - his responses are vague, dis-jointed, and a re-hashed jumble of what is doing the rounds. He quotes people like blasphemer Malachi Martin who was laizied for an affair with a married woman, defends sedevacatism by claiming sedevacatism is prophesied by mystical …More
This is the first time I have listened to Father Kramer and I'm afraid I find him painful to listen to. There is no logical thought - his responses are vague, dis-jointed, and a re-hashed jumble of what is doing the rounds. He quotes people like blasphemer Malachi Martin who was laizied for an affair with a married woman, defends sedevacatism by claiming sedevacatism is prophesied by mystical writers such as Anna-Maria Taigi (not so! She was referring to a period of three and a half years as quoted in Revelation), that the Church is currently buried in a tomb and no longer visible (how this tallies with three and half years I'm at loss to understand) that the 1984 consecration was not valid (despite both the Vatican and Sr. Lucia herself have said that it was accepted), that unapproved visions back his case, that the argument " the consecration won't happen overnight, it will take time" is "a load of cobswallop", that Padre Pio said that Russia would be converted in an instant (That's a new one to me. Would be interested in Fr. Kramer's reference which he does not provide), and THEN, after all that, Fr. Kramer suddenly starts talking about how Russia had changed completely from its pre-1984 soviet state and, moreover, has been protected from the modernism taking over the rest of the world! Such muddled thinking is not helpful.
Trolls?
Credo, I'm not sure what the word 'Trolls' means but if you mean an underground agitator then I would have to say, I don't know but he certainly and consistently acts that way. Does Fr. Kramer have an open history and solid grounding? Other than his attacks on Rome and undermining the Vatican's authority in various ways, I do not know much about him. Does anyone on this site know his backstory (…More
Credo, I'm not sure what the word 'Trolls' means but if you mean an underground agitator then I would have to say, I don't know but he certainly and consistently acts that way. Does Fr. Kramer have an open history and solid grounding? Other than his attacks on Rome and undermining the Vatican's authority in various ways, I do not know much about him. Does anyone on this site know his backstory (pre-Fr. Gruner days?)
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He is active on FB:- Log into Facebook | Facebook
Carol H. ~ See The Remnant Newspaper:- "Exposing The Errors of Fr. Paul Kramer". By Robert Sisco & John Salza. ~ Also Interview on the Consecration of Russia by Fr. Paul Kramer. (Fr. Kramer believes that Sr. Lucia was replaced by an imposter.) @ Reddit. r/TraditionalCatholics. Hope this is of some help?
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Also see Fr Paul Kramer on the errors of Sisco and Salza.
Credo: Ok, I checked out the link you sent. Sisco and Salza are pretty detailed so I skimmed a bit and came across a quote from Fr. Kramer. I have to say I do not like his tone. He is what my kids call theatrically disdainful which is tactic used to avoid addressing a legitimate concern. It is also highly uncharitable: He writes: “Now let’s consider the Salza/Siscoe doctrine, which has already been …More
Credo: Ok, I checked out the link you sent. Sisco and Salza are pretty detailed so I skimmed a bit and came across a quote from Fr. Kramer. I have to say I do not like his tone. He is what my kids call theatrically disdainful which is tactic used to avoid addressing a legitimate concern. It is also highly uncharitable: He writes: “Now let’s consider the Salza/Siscoe doctrine, which has already been adequately refuted by another author [a Sedevacantist layman with no theological training], who, (unlike myself), has endured the somewhat penitential work of reading through the entire 700 page book. I have read enough excerpts to gain an adequate understanding of the errant Salza/Siscoe arguments [remember this statement]. One does not need to jump into a refuse bin and asphyxiate on the putrid fumes to recognize its contents – a couple of sniffs suffice for the olfactory apparatus to make its determination. Likewise, it is not necessary for one to read through an entire work to recognize by the stink of their errors...” (Facebook, August 5th). The book Fr. Kramer is referring to is "True or False Pope" by Sisco and Salza and is a defense of the Papacy against the novel error of 'Sede-vacantism'. Clearly Fr. Kramer does not like this book. And this would heavily imply that he holds - or at least held -to the Sede-vacantism position himself. Either way, there was no cause to respond the way he did.
Maria delos Angeles: I will peruse your link next.
Maria delos Angeles: I will peruse your link next.
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Ok, had a squizzy - yeah I remember now, I watched Ann Barnhardt's video on Diabolical Narcissism. Some gal - very full-on; shoots from the hip. Reminds me of my sister :D Thanks for tip. She makes a point of stating she is NOT (her capitals!) sedevacantist but I have no doubt Pope Francis is roasted in there somewhere....
One more comment from Carol H
Aha - I see where she is coming from and why you posted(?). According to her podcast Pope Benedict is still the Pope. Hang on though - he died in 2022. That leaves us with just Pope Francis.... Mmmm so does Ann now hold with Sede-vacantism? (hope not 
). She may need to up-date her website.
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Read on, @Carol H; there is a lot of material covered in those hundreds of hours of podcasting and blogging; and the various companions and associates of hers - Dr Ed Mazza for e.g., notable for his Benedict thesis. They speak of the interregnum period between Popes; and bear in mind this is an unprecedented situation in the history of the Church of the impeded See and substantial error of BXVI's …More
Read on, @Carol H; there is a lot of material covered in those hundreds of hours of podcasting and blogging; and the various companions and associates of hers - Dr Ed Mazza for e.g., notable for his Benedict thesis. They speak of the interregnum period between Popes; and bear in mind this is an unprecedented situation in the history of the Church of the impeded See and substantial error of BXVI's resignation. Here is another fairly recent video of Fr Kramer:- THE LAST APOSTLE OF FATIMA INTERVIEW WITH FR KRAMER FOUR
I'll take a look at the Benedict thesis on Ann's site - but I wash my hands of Fr. Kramer's thoughts on the matter. Too much of a weather-cock - swings this way and that - side-steps direct questions with insulting adjectives - readily embraces fantastical claims such as a 'fake Lucia', and backs everyone and anyone who attacks the Pope. Experience has taught me that such deliberate agitation is a …More
I'll take a look at the Benedict thesis on Ann's site - but I wash my hands of Fr. Kramer's thoughts on the matter. Too much of a weather-cock - swings this way and that - side-steps direct questions with insulting adjectives - readily embraces fantastical claims such as a 'fake Lucia', and backs everyone and anyone who attacks the Pope. Experience has taught me that such deliberate agitation is a red flag.
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I am sorry you see Fr Paul that way. I was swayed after listening to several interviews with him. My personal experience has shown me that Bergoglio is in fact possessed by demons. LITERALLY. There are some people who have experience of these things and able to discern spirits. I can see it clear as day every time I look at an image of him. Ann B also did a presentation on the Bergoglian anti-papacy …More
I am sorry you see Fr Paul that way. I was swayed after listening to several interviews with him. My personal experience has shown me that Bergoglio is in fact possessed by demons. LITERALLY. There are some people who have experience of these things and able to discern spirits. I can see it clear as day every time I look at an image of him. Ann B also did a presentation on the Bergoglian anti-papacy, which you can see via her website, here :- The Bergoglian Antipapcy | Barnhardt
Appreciate your honesty. Believe me I'm no fan of this Pope. Far, far from it. I'm just against lay people trying to make a dogma of Sede-vacantism. As horrific as he is, this Pope is the center-point for the Catholic world; its the glue that holds us together creating a bastion against the snarling wolves closing in. Without it, everybody becomes their own pope and that's not only down right …More
Appreciate your honesty. Believe me I'm no fan of this Pope. Far, far from it. I'm just against lay people trying to make a dogma of Sede-vacantism. As horrific as he is, this Pope is the center-point for the Catholic world; its the glue that holds us together creating a bastion against the snarling wolves closing in. Without it, everybody becomes their own pope and that's not only down right Protestant, but it leaves the Church deserted and our families laid bare to a growing M uslim threat. Anyway, I have a nice hot cup of tea all ready so I'll have a listen to Ms. Calamity Jane of the trad cat world and let you know what I think :)
Ann Barnhardt claims that Pope Benedict's resignation was invalid due to, primarily, "substantial error" and secondary, "out of fear" and therefore that makes Jorge Bergolio's election invalid; that is the crux of her argument. Now the latter is her private assumption so we can dismiss it. Let us look at "substantial error" (making a grave mistake): Well, Ann draws upon Pope Benedict's last Papal …More
Ann Barnhardt claims that Pope Benedict's resignation was invalid due to, primarily, "substantial error" and secondary, "out of fear" and therefore that makes Jorge Bergolio's election invalid; that is the crux of her argument. Now the latter is her private assumption so we can dismiss it. Let us look at "substantial error" (making a grave mistake): Well, Ann draws upon Pope Benedict's last Papal audience where he explaining how he sees his role after his resignation from the Seat of Peter: "I no longer bear the power of office for the governance of the Church, but in the service of prayer I remain, so to speak, in the enclosure of Saint Peter." Given Pope Benedict's official resignation (see below) it clear that this is merely a manner of speaking - as he states himself. It simply means that by his prayers he will remain "in spirit" within the enclosure of Saint Peter. Nothing more. He does not literally mean that he will resign "actively" as Pope yet remain "passively" as Pope - thereby allegedly committing a "substantial error". There is no "substantial error" involved here. Ann is reading into things that are not there. She is totally missing the meaning intended. - looking at a tree instead of the wood.
Pope Benedict XVI's official resignation letter, dated 11th February, 2013:
The Latin: "Quapropter bene conscius ponderis huius actus plena libertate declaro me ministerio Episcopi Romae, Successoris Sancti Petri, mihi per manus Cardinalium die undevicesima Aprilis bismillesimo quinto commissum renuntiare ita ut a die vicesima octava februarii bismillesimo tredecesimo, hora vicesima, sedes Romae, sedes Sancti Petri vacet et Conclave ad eligendum novum Summum Pontificem ab his quibus competit convocandum esse.
Translation: “Therefore, well aware of the seriousness of this action, in full liberty I declare that I resign the ministry of the bishop of Rome, of the Successor of St. Peter, entrusted to me through the hands of the Cardinals on the 19th day of April, 2005, with the result that, from the twenty-eighth day of February 2013 [see below], at the twentieth hour, the see of Rome, the See of St. Peter, will be vacant; and I declare that a Conclave to select a new highest pontiff needs to be convoked by those to whom the duty belongs.”
The Latin word 'ministerio' (Ministry) means both "the office or functions of a ministeris"; there is no distinction in Latin as they may be in English.
Pope Benedict XVI's official resignation letter, dated 11th February, 2013:
The Latin: "Quapropter bene conscius ponderis huius actus plena libertate declaro me ministerio Episcopi Romae, Successoris Sancti Petri, mihi per manus Cardinalium die undevicesima Aprilis bismillesimo quinto commissum renuntiare ita ut a die vicesima octava februarii bismillesimo tredecesimo, hora vicesima, sedes Romae, sedes Sancti Petri vacet et Conclave ad eligendum novum Summum Pontificem ab his quibus competit convocandum esse.
Translation: “Therefore, well aware of the seriousness of this action, in full liberty I declare that I resign the ministry of the bishop of Rome, of the Successor of St. Peter, entrusted to me through the hands of the Cardinals on the 19th day of April, 2005, with the result that, from the twenty-eighth day of February 2013 [see below], at the twentieth hour, the see of Rome, the See of St. Peter, will be vacant; and I declare that a Conclave to select a new highest pontiff needs to be convoked by those to whom the duty belongs.”
The Latin word 'ministerio' (Ministry) means both "the office or functions of a ministeris"; there is no distinction in Latin as they may be in English.
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The question is examined nine ways from Sunday, encompassing canon law, insider insights .., official news reports, all from unlettered unscholared Dorothy from Kansas and her associates. That why I recommend the podcasts, because everything said is some new insight or piece of info coming to light, none of it time wasted. I should have tuned in earlier on and stuck with it instead of going away …More
The question is examined nine ways from Sunday, encompassing canon law, insider insights .., official news reports, all from unlettered unscholared Dorothy from Kansas and her associates. That why I recommend the podcasts, because everything said is some new insight or piece of info coming to light, none of it time wasted. I should have tuned in earlier on and stuck with it instead of going away and much later returning; now I have been going through each podcast, downloading to smartphone and listening on the fly , working backwards from the most recent to earlier. Each episode is golden. I will re-listen everything I think to make sure I have immersed it all in.
Ann is a brilliant speaker, no doubt about it. And she is thorough. And yes I will continue as it is interesting to see why people hold this point of view. But so far - she commits the very error she accuses others of: starting with a false premise. And then worse, immediately declaring as yet another layman pope.
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Please keep reading/listening on Carol H, I realise a bit of a paradigm shift involved for most Catholics and peoples of the world, but I am sure the rewards will be worth the efforts, especially if it will help resolve the GREAT CONFUSION the Church is currently going, as they say, the truth, like a lion, once let out, will take care of itself?? Supernerd, Ed Mazza , nurse Claire, Dr (forgot the …More
Please keep reading/listening on Carol H, I realise a bit of a paradigm shift involved for most Catholics and peoples of the world, but I am sure the rewards will be worth the efforts, especially if it will help resolve the GREAT CONFUSION the Church is currently going, as they say, the truth, like a lion, once let out, will take care of itself?? Supernerd, Ed Mazza , nurse Claire, Dr (forgot the name?), like I said, a bit on the fly, and other guests/friends they are all extremely gifted with expression/insightful in their respective fields, and have the right ideas about a lot of things - that I can tell.
Congratulations @Carol H and Maria delos Angeles; Excellent reading. Just came across "The Secret of Fatima" taken from: L` Osservatore Romano Weekly edition in English 28th June, 2,000, Special Insert; which makes very interesting reading. ~ @ EWTN Global Catholic Television Network: Catholic News, TV, Radio | EWTN > Catholicism > devotions >Secret-of-Fatima - 23375.